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James Toney, Comedy and Metaphor

By Josh Stein on Aug 29, 2010

Photo credit to Tracy Lee. Published by Yahoo sports.

James Toney (0-1 MMA, 0-1 UFC) looked, last night, like he took a page out of the Gabe Ruediger (17-6 MMA, 0-2 UFC) Big Book of Diet Tips. He looked out-of-shape, but worse than that, he displayed some of the worst grappling since… well… since the last time a professional boxer stepped into the UFC.

For those who are missing my point, James Toney is the Art Jimmerson (0-1 MMA, 0-1 UFC) of this new school. Jimmerson appeared at UFC 1, taking on Royce Gracie in the first round of the tournament, was mounted and forced to tap with his lone, un-gloved hand. Toney, in the same form, did nothing to stop the takedown, to try and establish a guard or otherwise defend himself.

But Toney demonstrates a larger failing, not just on the part of his camp, but on the part of the sport that he was supposed to represent. And I’m not even talking about the failure of grappling. It’s a failure of attitude the existed both in Toney’s training (as made apparent by a performance more closely resembling Deep Water Horizon than a fight) and exists in boxing, generally.

When I listen to boxers talk about MMA, whether it was James Toney in the lead up to this fight, or Bernard Hopkins, or Jeff Lacy, or Floyd Mayweather Jr., there’s a sense of entitlement behind the words: because there’s punching involved, their knowledge becomes relevant. These guys are pugilists, they’re punchers. They’re not (as Toney so completely demonstrated) fighters. Their knowledge of fighting, writ general, is limited strictly to two weapons.

The boxers are, to embrace the old cliche, bring a knife to a gun-fight, and they think that because they brought a knife, because they’ve been training with it since they were kids, someone like Randy Couture, a world champion and athletic legend in his own right, is going to put away the arsenal he’s spent his entire adult life (and perhaps much of his adolescence) perfecting and fight you with a prison shank?

I was pretty good humored last night. I was happy to see Randy Couture (19-10 MMA, 16-7 UFC) absolutely demolish a fighter who had no place in the Octagon whatsoever. The fact that Toney threw a grand total of zero punches standing up was a wonderful if surprising statistic. But as I was going for a morning jog in the Fresno heat, today, I realized that perhaps my jubilation was not the appropriate response. Maybe it’s just the 100+ degree weather getting me hot under the collar, but as someone who studies this sport, as someone who considers it vocational, in a number of forms, I was insulted by James Toney, and by the audacity of the boxing community generally.

After all, this is a guy who made abundantly clear that he had put forth no effort whatsoever to learn the ground game. He had not in the least prepared himself to deal with the game that Randy was bringing in the cage. Either he is immensely stupid (and listening to people like Freddie Roach and Teddy Atlas commenting on MMA, he certainly wouldn’t be the only one) or he genuinely felt that the only thing he needed was a heavy right hand a big left hook.

Why is that insulting?

Because the guys who win big fights in MMA with one of those shocking punches (like Shogun Rua or Chuck Liddell) don’t do it because they spend their afternoons hitting the heavy bag. The “boxers” in MMA aren’t spending their days thinking about honing the skills that are going to win the fight. Anyone who knows anything about… well… anything knows that if you’re going to win with any sort of consistency, one of the important things to do is make sure that you’ve got your secondary skills to the point where a bad matchup doesn’t mean a definite ass-whupping.

I don’t expect Toney, or the boxing community generally, to learn much of anything from this event. I expect Bernard Hopkins to still make idiotic and homophobic comments about the grappling aspect of MMA, and the boxing community to continue to jeer the grappling game. But they’re welcome to send more boxers over, like a game of Red Rover, and we’ll be happy to introduce them to real fighters.

In the meantime, there are some great boxers who show respect for the sport, who know that they’re not cut out for learning grappling, that they don’t have the versatility of conditioning that MMA requires, or who feel that they do, and so they’ve humbled themselves and are trying to learn the skills. Those guys, Roy Jones Jr. and Ray Mercer, among others, are the guys the boxing community should look up to, not simply because they display a level of humility and an willingness to cop to limitations which has been absent in boxing for too damn long, but because they understand that boxing, MMA, and sports (generally) are about harnessing a skill set, building athleticism and stepping in to compete, regardless of who the guy at the other end of the cage or the ring is. Maybe, if the community, writ large, figures that problem out, or at least educates Floyd Mayweather Jr. enough that he decides he’d rather be an athlete than a professional heel, and lets those looking to cross over know that, if they don’t want to be at the center of a graveyard stand-up routine at Catch a Rising Star, they should spend more than five minutes a day on the mat.

Filed Under: MMA • Opinion

Tags: Boxing • James Toney • UFC • UFC 118

About the Author: Joshua Stein is a writer and editor for MMA Opinion. He has worked as a photographer and journalist and has a number of print journalism credits. He also works as a moderator for MMAForum.com and a grappling columnist (covering judo, collegiate wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and submission grappling) for profighting-fans.com.

RSSComments (19)

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  1. elguapo says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    this as one of the worst articles i have ever read, you sir are an idiot. stick to writing about mma, stay the fuck out of boxing please.

    • edub says:
      August 30, 2010 at 7:35 pm

      What did he say wrong about boxing. He spoke about facts(although there is many more boxers than he mentioned, and Bhop for one showed his respect when he said Toney had absolutely no shot).

      This isn’t a boxing website dipshit.

  2. Jesus H Chirst says:
    August 30, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    You really really really know nothing about boxing, do you?

    Kind of funny really, in a sad kind of way.

    • edub says:
      August 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm

      Where did he claim to be an expert on boxing?

      You guys really need to not worry about what he’s writing, and focus on your own Truly fucked up sport. Because it is that, fucked up.

      And I’ll be waiting if you wanna argue with someone who has actually written for a boxing website before. So make sure you come with facts, or I’ll crush you…

      • Jesus H Christ says:
        September 1, 2010 at 1:10 pm

        Care to justify this statement then?

        “…at least educates Floyd Mayweather Jr. enough that he decides he’d rather be an athlete than a professional heel…”

        Crush away.

        What boxing website have you written for BTW? I’d be interested in reading some of your stuff.

        • wardog says:
          September 2, 2010 at 9:46 am

          I can justify it… Mayweather talks more crap than any boxer about MMA, especially about the ground game. Most (not all) MMA fighters are respectful of the art of boxing, especially since many of them box as part of their training. However, Mayweather and others believe that they will do exactly what Toney said he would do despite the fact that Toney was taken down without throwing a punch! So they should learn (be educated) that this would probably happen to them as well, even if they trained 6 months of grappling like Toney!

          • JHC says:
            September 2, 2010 at 1:32 pm

            What does that have to do with Floyd deciding he’d “rather be an athlete than a professional heel”?

            Floyd’s one of (if not the best) boxers in the world today, a world champion at multiple weights, and a well publicised work horse in the gym.

            Questioning his standing as an athlete just goes to show this “writer’s” knowledge of boxing is embarrassingly poor, not to mention heavily tainted by bias.

          • JHC says:
            September 10, 2010 at 5:08 pm

            I’m still left in awe by all of the crushing that edub did here… and by crushing I do mean making one smarmy posturing comment, and then promptly running away.

          • edub says:
            September 10, 2010 at 6:09 pm

            Running away!
            Really. Where did I go? Do you realy think it makes any since to argue with someonewho obviously doesn’t have any common sense.

            Are you really trying to defend Floyd? Do you know the guy?

            He’s hated by more boxing “purests” than casual fans even watch the sport. He just went on an egotistical/racial/homophobic rant against the same guy who he has been ducking for the past two years. And he has been ducking him. Manny finally gave in to the drug testing demands, and all PBF could do was go on vacation for a year. He made it be known that he does not want to fight the best PFP boxer in the world eventhough he claims to be exactly that. Almost every single writer that has been on his side throughout this whole ordeal has jumped ship. Even Kevin Iole completely rippede him in one of his latest articles, and he’s been one of Floyd’s most ardent supporters. Yet you Jesus are obviously still there.

            Even Floyd’s whole career has been based on fighting the least competitive fight possible. He ducked Cotto/Margarito when he first made the jump to welterweight. He fought Delahoya at 154 and quickly came back down to fight Ricky Hatton at a weight class 7 lbs higher than he ever competed at. He makes sure to shit all over his opponents past before fights eventhough he is about to get charged for the second time with domestic violence.

            I really could keep going for days but there really is no point. You might come back with a witty little diatribe because you obvioulsy just commented here to stir up an argument. Here’s an idea why don’t you go to Bad left hook, Queensberry-rules, boxing bulletin, or really any other respected boxing site and argue about Floyd being more of a top level athlete than a clown. You will probably love it cuz you’ll be arguing for days…

      • JHC says:
        September 11, 2010 at 7:13 am

        Manny gave into testing up to 14 days before the fight, AFTER Floyd had already said he wouldn’t fight anybody who refused testing right up until the fight, not 14 days before. Floyd said this in the ring after the Mosley win, and then Manny decided he’d be happy to test up until two weeks prior. How is that Floyd ducking him, when Manny didn’t give into the demands at all?

        And I’d take a look at Floyd’s resume below 140 before talking this nonsense about how his entire career is based on fighting the least competitive fight available.

        You do realise that Cotto’s camp never offered Floyd a fight don’t you? They saw what Floyd did to Brussels and then decided against fighting Floyd. Then again, you have no idea what you’re talking about so you wouldn’t know that either I guess.

        He turned down a Margy fight yeah, but it was a choice between him and Baldomir and the Baldomir fight made him more money, as well as him winning the WBC, Ring, and Linear Championship. Margy had nothing to bring to the table.

        Now, for the second time, do you care to justify this statement?

        “…at least educates Floyd Mayweather Jr. enough that he decides he’d rather be an athlete than a professional heel…”

        • edub says:
          September 11, 2010 at 9:16 pm

          They were in negotiations to fight eachother only few months ago. During which Manny accepted the timetable. After he accepted Floyd came out and said he did not want the fight right now, and went back on vacation. The Mayweathers and elerbe tried to tell the public that there was no negotiations going on, and the Head of HBO completely shot that down.

          There really is no reason left to argue with you. I provide you information that supported an answer to what you’re asking for and it seems to just fly right over your head. Then you come back with false rumors and try to pass them off as facts.

          • JHC says:
            September 17, 2010 at 1:18 pm

            Wrong again.

            Negotiations started, then quickly ended. Arum was just talking shit in the media (which you naively swallowed), and was called out on it by Michael Marley before Floyd’s people had even made a statement. Look it up, you might actually learn something.

            Now, for the third time, do you care to justify this statement?

            “…at least educates Floyd Mayweather Jr. enough that he decides he’d rather be an athlete than a professional heel…”

          • edub says:
            September 17, 2010 at 2:54 pm

            So the head of HBO is Arum’s people? Also if I am the one who is naive why do writers like Dan Rafael, Kevin Iole(ex mayweather supporter), Tim Starks(queensberry-rules.com), Michael Wilbon, Gary Poole(TIME magazine), and countless others agree with me on the subject and not you?

            Im sure your heartbroken though. Floyd’s facing 8 chargers, including 4 felonies, so your hero might be going up for a while. He won’t be around to beat his baby mama, threaten his kids, and talk smack about people he has no interest in fighting. Sorry for your loss.

            The statement has been clarified multiple times. It’s getting kind of annoying that you’re not intelligent enough to see that though. AND it’s even more annoying that I have to keep reiforcing a point by Bob Arum who is a piece of shit human being.

            So let’s run down this one more time for the troll/idiot. Mayweather beat Mosley. He then said that he would be vacationing for a year. Then there were reports of negotiations taking place between the two sides. Arum came out and told the public that numbers had been agreed upon, Manny had accepted the 14 day window, and all that was awaiting was Floyd’s signature. Mayweather’s side(Schaefer, Haymon, Ellerbe, etc.) refuted those statements claiming no negotiations ever took place. There was some bickering back and forth over what was said until Greenberg made his statements. http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2010/07/26/hbos-ross-greenburg-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-negotiatio/. The Mayweather side refuted still that there was any type of negotiations going on, but it makes no sense for Greenburg to lie about it. He is a neutral party. Not employed by Top Rank, nor Mayweather productions. He even has closest ties with GBP who is on the side of Mayweather.
            So I ask this last question: Is it more likely that Ross Greenburg is lying, a person who deals regularly with GBP who is a promoting partner of Mayweather promotions, or the whole Mayweather side?

            Even you should be able to get this one.

  3. tom dillon says:
    August 30, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    i love boxing and mma,i thought this guys words were spot on!

  4. mark says:
    August 31, 2010 at 12:15 am

    awesome writeup as usual.

  5. Aaron says:
    August 31, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    I’m with Josh. Michael Jordan couldn’t play Baseball. Doesn’t mean he’s not a great athlete, but he doesn’t belong on a MLB field.

  6. wardog says:
    September 1, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Nice write up Josh. Funny how everyone knew what Couture was going to do (as he said so) and Toney could not stop him! Also as far as the “boxing bunch” that is criticizing this article are concerned don’t be mad…. if anyone thought this would be different you are sadly mistaken. All the “top” boxers would’ve suffered the same fate. Aaron said it best, but perhaps Renzo Gracie said it better “A boxer is like a lion, the greatest predator on land. But you throw him in the shark tank and he’s just another meal.”

  7. James Toney, Comedy and Metaphor | SUPPLEMENTS4MMA says:
    September 1, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    [...] View full post on MMA Opinion [...]

  8. Garrett Bailey says:
    September 7, 2010 at 7:42 am

    don’t be butt hurt.

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