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	<title>Comments on: Hoelzer Reich&#8217;s racist hatred apparently acceptable in the UFC</title>
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	<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/</link>
	<description>MMA Opinion and Cheap MMA Gear</description>
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		<title>By: Brandt DeLorenzo</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11473</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandt DeLorenzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11473</guid>
		<description>White pride and brown pride are nothing like white power. Nazi symbolism is directly tied to white power. Two very different things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>White pride and brown pride are nothing like white power. Nazi symbolism is directly tied to white power. Two very different things.</p>
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		<title>By: fuckthis</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11467</link>
		<dc:creator>fuckthis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11467</guid>
		<description>and btw. lets not forget The CROSS OF CHRIST. How many ppl have been slaughtered under that symbol? Yet it fits in just fine... apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and btw. lets not forget The CROSS OF CHRIST. How many ppl have been slaughtered under that symbol? Yet it fits in just fine&#8230; apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: fuckthis</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11465</link>
		<dc:creator>fuckthis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11465</guid>
		<description>Who gives a fuck? They should be able to wear whatever they want. Its a free country. Its about mma..its not a god damn fashion show. This is just like the fighter who was forced to cover up his WHITE PRIDE tattoo. People need to quit being whiney pussies..and get over it. Cain Vasquez has a brown pride tattoo..why doesnt he have to cover it up. He says its becuz he is proud of his mexican heritage. Well can a white man not be proud of his european heritage? And even if someone is plain out.. FUCK YOU IM RACIST. Its not politics ppl. Thats what kills sports in the first place. This is about mma, fighting and sportsman like conduct. If they are polite and do a good job. Then leave it alone. Fuck you, whiney pussies and this one sided bullshit artitcle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who gives a fuck? They should be able to wear whatever they want. Its a free country. Its about mma..its not a god damn fashion show. This is just like the fighter who was forced to cover up his WHITE PRIDE tattoo. People need to quit being whiney pussies..and get over it. Cain Vasquez has a brown pride tattoo..why doesnt he have to cover it up. He says its becuz he is proud of his mexican heritage. Well can a white man not be proud of his european heritage? And even if someone is plain out.. FUCK YOU IM RACIST. Its not politics ppl. Thats what kills sports in the first place. This is about mma, fighting and sportsman like conduct. If they are polite and do a good job. Then leave it alone. Fuck you, whiney pussies and this one sided bullshit artitcle.</p>
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		<title>By: PdxMMAeXaminer</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11397</link>
		<dc:creator>PdxMMAeXaminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11397</guid>
		<description>I am glad you clarified, and I see more of what you are trying to say now, but(there is always a but), banning is the word to be used here, just as the UFC has banned ClinchGear because of Dan Henderson being the owner and not signing, etc. Like it or not, banned is what the masses are screaming for, and because HR shirts are &quot;offensive&quot; the themselves or others. Yes, the UFC is a privately held company, etc., etc., but if they bow to the pressure from, what so far is unfounded claims of a nazi agenda, then the same will be expected the next time someone is offended. The public outcry not too long ago was to ban MMA altogether as well, was it not? All the mainstream saw was the IMAGERY of blood and violence, right? Although there is blood and violence, that does not make it bad, or ban-able and the same applies here. The UFC/MMA offends many, many people yet it is not banned and neither should any company strictly for the reasons given thus far in this whole ball of wax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad you clarified, and I see more of what you are trying to say now, but(there is always a but), banning is the word to be used here, just as the UFC has banned ClinchGear because of Dan Henderson being the owner and not signing, etc. Like it or not, banned is what the masses are screaming for, and because HR shirts are &#8220;offensive&#8221; the themselves or others. Yes, the UFC is a privately held company, etc., etc., but if they bow to the pressure from, what so far is unfounded claims of a nazi agenda, then the same will be expected the next time someone is offended. The public outcry not too long ago was to ban MMA altogether as well, was it not? All the mainstream saw was the IMAGERY of blood and violence, right? Although there is blood and violence, that does not make it bad, or ban-able and the same applies here. The UFC/MMA offends many, many people yet it is not banned and neither should any company strictly for the reasons given thus far in this whole ball of wax.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Stein</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11396</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11396</guid>
		<description>I see the root of your argument, but I think you&#039;re making a mistake about the way that the UFC works.

Protecting the UFC&#039;s image is a valid reason for the UFC to refuse the RH airtime on their broadcasts.

The &quot;Ban-Wagon&quot; (and I really don&#039;t like the term &quot;ban,&quot; personally, because that implies something more sweeping than what we&#039;re actually talking about) is about the UFC exercising an authority they already have, and already use, in a specific instance.

Again, this is not the government. You don&#039;t have to be worried about &quot;setting precedence&quot; because the UFC is allowed to work on a case-by-case basis when it comes to approving sponsors.

If you want to argue that &quot;banning&quot; t-shirts is a slippery slope, then you have to acknowledge that the UFC has already &quot;banned&quot; some sponsors because they are either direct organizational competitors or competitors with other Fertitta businesses.

If you want to argue that they shouldn&#039;t do it because &quot;it offends people,&quot; then I have to disagree with you.

They should absolutely minimize broadcasting behavior or logos that offend people. They are (like all sports organizations) an entertainment organization. They have to make a point of appealing to viewers, and they can&#039;t do that if the integrity of the brand is compromised.

One of the reasons the UFC has managed to land much bigger sponsors is because the UFC has demonstrated that it is both good at and interested in protecting its brand. That&#039;s corporatism.

I don&#039;t necessarily like it, but that&#039;s the reality of it. (by the way, my argument is not that they &quot;should&quot; prohibit the shirts, but rather that it&#039;s better for them if they do)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the root of your argument, but I think you&#8217;re making a mistake about the way that the UFC works.</p>
<p>Protecting the UFC&#8217;s image is a valid reason for the UFC to refuse the RH airtime on their broadcasts.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Ban-Wagon&#8221; (and I really don&#8217;t like the term &#8220;ban,&#8221; personally, because that implies something more sweeping than what we&#8217;re actually talking about) is about the UFC exercising an authority they already have, and already use, in a specific instance.</p>
<p>Again, this is not the government. You don&#8217;t have to be worried about &#8220;setting precedence&#8221; because the UFC is allowed to work on a case-by-case basis when it comes to approving sponsors.</p>
<p>If you want to argue that &#8220;banning&#8221; t-shirts is a slippery slope, then you have to acknowledge that the UFC has already &#8220;banned&#8221; some sponsors because they are either direct organizational competitors or competitors with other Fertitta businesses.</p>
<p>If you want to argue that they shouldn&#8217;t do it because &#8220;it offends people,&#8221; then I have to disagree with you.</p>
<p>They should absolutely minimize broadcasting behavior or logos that offend people. They are (like all sports organizations) an entertainment organization. They have to make a point of appealing to viewers, and they can&#8217;t do that if the integrity of the brand is compromised.</p>
<p>One of the reasons the UFC has managed to land much bigger sponsors is because the UFC has demonstrated that it is both good at and interested in protecting its brand. That&#8217;s corporatism.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily like it, but that&#8217;s the reality of it. (by the way, my argument is not that they &#8220;should&#8221; prohibit the shirts, but rather that it&#8217;s better for them if they do)</p>
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		<title>By: PdxMMAeXaminer</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11395</link>
		<dc:creator>PdxMMAeXaminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11395</guid>
		<description>As I said before, I see your point, but I believe mine is getting overlooked. Let me say this w/out sounding contrite...I could give 2 shits about HR, I think their shirts are ugly and would never wear one. I am not defending HR themselves in my argument, rather the fact that their is NO ACTUAL GROUNDS FOR BANNING their product..at least not yet. The majority of people who are on the &quot;Ban-Wagon&quot; want them banned purely for their imagery, which in itself is over the top. When you ban ANYTHING because it offends one particular group, groups, or one person, it starts a snowball effect. It will not end and everything else will eventually get scrutinized and the screams for another ban, and another..it will never end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said before, I see your point, but I believe mine is getting overlooked. Let me say this w/out sounding contrite&#8230;I could give 2 shits about HR, I think their shirts are ugly and would never wear one. I am not defending HR themselves in my argument, rather the fact that their is NO ACTUAL GROUNDS FOR BANNING their product..at least not yet. The majority of people who are on the &#8220;Ban-Wagon&#8221; want them banned purely for their imagery, which in itself is over the top. When you ban ANYTHING because it offends one particular group, groups, or one person, it starts a snowball effect. It will not end and everything else will eventually get scrutinized and the screams for another ban, and another..it will never end.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Stein</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11394</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11394</guid>
		<description>The association with Westwall (who I&#039;d have to waste time researching to really make a strong statement about) is, at least, an &quot;endorsement,&quot; and there was an intentional act of associating a brand with a band. That association, whether for money or otherwise, creates an obvious image problem for HR and (by extension) organizations that associate with them.

Is it a fair characterization? Debatable. (My answer is &quot;No. Though its pretty shady stuff.&quot;)

My problem with HR is the use of symbols generally used by the American Neo-Nazi, skinhead and white nationalist movements. Unless the guys at HR are complete morons, it&#039;s a clear attempt to market to those groups. That&#039;s the association the UFC doesn&#039;t want to make. (The &quot;Oh, brands that sell to Neo-Nazis are advertising, so they must think Neo-Nazis are watching the UFC.&quot;)

Frankly, I hope Neo-Nazis do watch the UFC, for the same reason I hope the Nazi party paid very close attention to Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics, but I think the UFC does have to make that decision. There was a lot of press early in the history of the sport about association with noted racists, so it&#039;s something to be careful of.

Gangster rap is an entirely different rant for me.

It&#039;s not like the UFC has to worry about a precedence issue. It&#039;s not the court system.

The UFC is entitled to handle sponsorships on a case-by-case basis, and they do. HR is a case that they don&#039;t want to be associated with, so don&#039;t allow them to sponsor fighters associated with the organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The association with Westwall (who I&#8217;d have to waste time researching to really make a strong statement about) is, at least, an &#8220;endorsement,&#8221; and there was an intentional act of associating a brand with a band. That association, whether for money or otherwise, creates an obvious image problem for HR and (by extension) organizations that associate with them.</p>
<p>Is it a fair characterization? Debatable. (My answer is &#8220;No. Though its pretty shady stuff.&#8221;)</p>
<p>My problem with HR is the use of symbols generally used by the American Neo-Nazi, skinhead and white nationalist movements. Unless the guys at HR are complete morons, it&#8217;s a clear attempt to market to those groups. That&#8217;s the association the UFC doesn&#8217;t want to make. (The &#8220;Oh, brands that sell to Neo-Nazis are advertising, so they must think Neo-Nazis are watching the UFC.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Frankly, I hope Neo-Nazis do watch the UFC, for the same reason I hope the Nazi party paid very close attention to Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics, but I think the UFC does have to make that decision. There was a lot of press early in the history of the sport about association with noted racists, so it&#8217;s something to be careful of.</p>
<p>Gangster rap is an entirely different rant for me.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not like the UFC has to worry about a precedence issue. It&#8217;s not the court system.</p>
<p>The UFC is entitled to handle sponsorships on a case-by-case basis, and they do. HR is a case that they don&#8217;t want to be associated with, so don&#8217;t allow them to sponsor fighters associated with the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: PdxMMAeXaminer</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11393</link>
		<dc:creator>PdxMMAeXaminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11393</guid>
		<description>I understand what you are saying, but again, it is a slippery slope when u start banning things. And, BTW, if you did some more reading, you would find that HR never &#039;sponsored&#039; any neo-nazi band. The fact of the matter is that the band in question got some free t-shirts and took a picture with them all, not a sponsorship. For all I know, they could be Nazi&#039;s, but until they come out with a mantra of hate or anything similar, not just imagery that some find offensive, then they are just another shitty t-shirt company with skulls like the rest..LOL. Ban one and the can of worms is opened for the rest. I know one or two of their sponsored fighters personally as well, and I can say, to my knowlege, they are not Nazi&#039;s, but what do I know. Gangster rap has been called anti-semitic as well, do we also call for a ban of all gangster rap for walk out music? Once it starts, there will be no stopping it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand what you are saying, but again, it is a slippery slope when u start banning things. And, BTW, if you did some more reading, you would find that HR never &#8216;sponsored&#8217; any neo-nazi band. The fact of the matter is that the band in question got some free t-shirts and took a picture with them all, not a sponsorship. For all I know, they could be Nazi&#8217;s, but until they come out with a mantra of hate or anything similar, not just imagery that some find offensive, then they are just another shitty t-shirt company with skulls like the rest..LOL. Ban one and the can of worms is opened for the rest. I know one or two of their sponsored fighters personally as well, and I can say, to my knowlege, they are not Nazi&#8217;s, but what do I know. Gangster rap has been called anti-semitic as well, do we also call for a ban of all gangster rap for walk out music? Once it starts, there will be no stopping it.</p>
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		<title>By: batslade</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11392</link>
		<dc:creator>batslade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11392</guid>
		<description>Cheers to the writer of this article. More people need to be aware of the deceit this company peddling.

Its pathetic that this kind of stuff is not only allowed in the &quot;Superbowl of MMA,&quot; but on top of that you have idiots defending this crap. I feel sorry for all the fighters who are evidently so poor they have to accept money from Nazis.

Would the NFL, NBA, or Major League Baseball allow one of the their players to wear this awful crap?  I doubt it. If UFC wants to be taken seriously, they need to draw the line somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers to the writer of this article. More people need to be aware of the deceit this company peddling.</p>
<p>Its pathetic that this kind of stuff is not only allowed in the &#8220;Superbowl of MMA,&#8221; but on top of that you have idiots defending this crap. I feel sorry for all the fighters who are evidently so poor they have to accept money from Nazis.</p>
<p>Would the NFL, NBA, or Major League Baseball allow one of the their players to wear this awful crap?  I doubt it. If UFC wants to be taken seriously, they need to draw the line somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandt DeLorenzo</title>
		<link>http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/12/07/hoelzer-reichs-racist-hatred-apparently-acceptable-in-the-ufc/comment-page-1/#comment-11391</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandt DeLorenzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mmaopinion.com/?p=4378#comment-11391</guid>
		<description>I want to think that Jed Colvin and Jamie Vine are using this imagery more because it looks cool, not because they hate people. There&#039;s a good chance that white pride and white power fighters and supporters are buying this gear because of the imagery and causing problems. Everyone who said that they met Jed and Jamie had nothing but nice things to say and that they would hang out with people of all races.

But I go back and check out the logo, the helmets, and the rest of symbolism (fourth reich? yikes) and I&#039;m not convinced.

How would people feel if someone had a MMA shirt that alluded to a pair of burning towers in NYC? People would flip out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to think that Jed Colvin and Jamie Vine are using this imagery more because it looks cool, not because they hate people. There&#8217;s a good chance that white pride and white power fighters and supporters are buying this gear because of the imagery and causing problems. Everyone who said that they met Jed and Jamie had nothing but nice things to say and that they would hang out with people of all races.</p>
<p>But I go back and check out the logo, the helmets, and the rest of symbolism (fourth reich? yikes) and I&#8217;m not convinced.</p>
<p>How would people feel if someone had a MMA shirt that alluded to a pair of burning towers in NYC? People would flip out.</p>
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