Comments on: Retouching History: Is the Coverage of Gina Carano Misleading? http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/ MMA Opinion and Cheap MMA Gear Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:45:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: ironman http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-7120 ironman Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:49:21 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-7120 Ian, that's a fair point. She's failed to make weight twice in seven fights and on one occasion made weight under curious circumstances. The Rosi Sexton fight was an early disappointment and chalked up to being, generally, green, but I feel about that bout the same way I felt about the Cyborg vs. Akano debacle: "Really? You brought her up a weight class (even, arguably, two weight classes) and you're going to weight in that heavy? Are you f*cking kidding me?" Still, the fight with Young was really unforgivable, and the Kobold weigh in was sketchy. Having three disappointing/controversial weigh ins in seven fights is really not good, and she needs to knock it off, otherwise she's going to lose a lot of fans as her career goes on. Ian, that’s a fair point. She’s failed to make weight twice in seven fights and on one occasion made weight under curious circumstances. The Rosi Sexton fight was an early disappointment and chalked up to being, generally, green, but I feel about that bout the same way I felt about the Cyborg vs. Akano debacle:

“Really? You brought her up a weight class (even, arguably, two weight classes) and you’re going to weight in that heavy? Are you f*cking kidding me?”

Still, the fight with Young was really unforgivable, and the Kobold weigh in was sketchy. Having three disappointing/controversial weigh ins in seven fights is really not good, and she needs to knock it off, otherwise she’s going to lose a lot of fans as her career goes on.

]]> By: Ian Dean http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-7117 Ian Dean Thu, 02 Jul 2009 02:18:32 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-7117 It's also worth noting that Gina came in around 8 lbs over the agreed 135 limit when she forught rosi sexton and then force rosi to fight at a higher weight class. Rosi now fights at 125lbs and has made 120lbs and could make 115 It’s also worth noting that Gina came in around 8 lbs over the agreed 135 limit when she forught rosi sexton and then force rosi to fight at a higher weight class.

Rosi now fights at 125lbs and has made 120lbs and could make 115

]]> By: Yael Grauer http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-7008 Yael Grauer Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:57:39 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-7008 Also, most of the women Gina is fighting get paid pebbles for their fights (actually most female fighters with the exception of Gina don't get paid shit) so they make much more from their sponsors. So if they pull out of the fight, not only are the promoters probably never going to work with them again but they also are losing all that sponsorship money. Basically fighters who don't make weight get a small financial penalty which allows them to basically "buy" a size advantage over their opponents... And I mentioned this in the article I cited... Losing a small part of their purse isn’t enough to stop it from happening. BTW Josh, major kudos for writing about this because most MMA sites are too chickenshit. :) Also, most of the women Gina is fighting get paid pebbles for their fights (actually most female fighters with the exception of Gina don’t get paid shit) so they make much more from their sponsors. So if they pull out of the fight, not only are the promoters probably never going to work with them again but they also are losing all that sponsorship money.

Basically fighters who don’t make weight get a small financial penalty which allows them to basically “buy” a size advantage over their opponents… And I mentioned this in the article I cited… Losing a small part of their purse isn’t enough to stop it from happening.

BTW Josh, major kudos for writing about this because most MMA sites are too chickenshit. :)

]]> By: ironman http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-7005 ironman Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:00:52 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-7005 Bill, it's not as though the women I'm talking about aren't fighting. Fujii fought three times in 2008 and once already in 2009. She's fought more often than Gina, and been more dominant in her performances and (to the best of my knowledge) not had any weight issues). As far as Fedor goes, the casual fans can doubt him, but if you look at a group like the Independent World MMA Rankings panel, all guys with very different views on the sport, we all agree that Fedor is #1 (in fact, one of the few fighters we all agree on). There's no perception issue among those who know about his career. There are plenty of fighters in the women's 145 pound division. You've never heard of them, because people don't talk about the prospects in women's MMA, but they exist. Marloes Coenen (who Yael mentioned) is much bigger. Cindy Dandois is a definite prospect. These fighters exist, but Gina has been protected from fighting larger opponents in that weight class, which sort of goes towards my point of not really being a self-made fighter and having serious support from her promotion. Bill, it’s not as though the women I’m talking about aren’t fighting. Fujii fought three times in 2008 and once already in 2009. She’s fought more often than Gina, and been more dominant in her performances and (to the best of my knowledge) not had any weight issues).

As far as Fedor goes, the casual fans can doubt him, but if you look at a group like the Independent World MMA Rankings panel, all guys with very different views on the sport, we all agree that Fedor is #1 (in fact, one of the few fighters we all agree on). There’s no perception issue among those who know about his career.

There are plenty of fighters in the women’s 145 pound division. You’ve never heard of them, because people don’t talk about the prospects in women’s MMA, but they exist. Marloes Coenen (who Yael mentioned) is much bigger. Cindy Dandois is a definite prospect. These fighters exist, but Gina has been protected from fighting larger opponents in that weight class, which sort of goes towards my point of not really being a self-made fighter and having serious support from her promotion.

]]> By: Bill http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-7002 Bill Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:07:54 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-7002 Yael I would agree, but once she doesn't make weight who is responsible for the fight going on then? Aside from Erin Toughill I cannot think of a fighter at a higher weight class. I am sure promoters have no problem forcing the fight. And other fighters do not as well, because if they beat her they gain instant publicity. And Josh the point you make that her stance as the best MMA fighter in the world is questionable is true. But perception is a big part of MMA, especially if the two or three best do not fight. Fedor is a prime example,until he gets in the UFC (if ever) there will be those that will doubt him as the best fighter in the world. No matter how many former UFC Champions he beats or causes to run away from him (Couture). Yael I would agree, but once she doesn’t make weight who is responsible for the fight going on then? Aside from Erin Toughill I cannot think of a fighter at a higher weight class. I am sure promoters have no problem forcing the fight. And other fighters do not as well, because if they beat her they gain instant publicity.
And Josh the point you make that her stance as the best MMA fighter in the world is questionable is true. But perception is a big part of MMA, especially if the two or three best do not fight. Fedor is a prime example,until he gets in the UFC (if ever) there will be those that will doubt him as the best fighter in the world. No matter how many former UFC Champions he beats or causes to run away from him (Couture).

]]> By: ironman http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-6997 ironman Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:00:43 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-6997 Bill, it's not an issue of her being forced to sign contracts. It's an issue of her signing contracts, breaking them, and having the contracts renegotiated so that her opponents will fight her at their weight. I saw it in person with Cyborg vs. Akano, but a lot of these fighters, when their opponent doesn't make weight, get pressured into fighting anyway, even though they should be entitled to take their money and walk away. She is the best thing to happen to women's MMA, I'm not gonna dispute that. She's going to headline the most watched women's MMA event in the history of the world in August, and I'll be sitting there (live, I'm sure, since it's in San Jose) writing about it. That said, it's an issue of disproportionate hype. Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz were the best things for publicizing MMA. That doesn't make them the best fighters in the world. Randy Couture is a publicity machine. So's Brock Lesnar. It doesn't mean they'd stand a snowballs chance in hell in the ring against Fedor. The hype is not appropriate in comparison to reality. The reality is, her legitimacy as the top woman in the world is seriously questionable. That said, she's a helluva fighter, and I enjoy watching her step in. Yael, you also forgot Yuka Tsuji, who has more fights than any female fighter I know of, and an incredibly impressive record. I'm hoping for a Fujii vs. Tsuji matchup in the future. Bill, it’s not an issue of her being forced to sign contracts. It’s an issue of her signing contracts, breaking them, and having the contracts renegotiated so that her opponents will fight her at their weight. I saw it in person with Cyborg vs. Akano, but a lot of these fighters, when their opponent doesn’t make weight, get pressured into fighting anyway, even though they should be entitled to take their money and walk away.

She is the best thing to happen to women’s MMA, I’m not gonna dispute that. She’s going to headline the most watched women’s MMA event in the history of the world in August, and I’ll be sitting there (live, I’m sure, since it’s in San Jose) writing about it. That said, it’s an issue of disproportionate hype.

Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz were the best things for publicizing MMA. That doesn’t make them the best fighters in the world.

Randy Couture is a publicity machine. So’s Brock Lesnar. It doesn’t mean they’d stand a snowballs chance in hell in the ring against Fedor.

The hype is not appropriate in comparison to reality. The reality is, her legitimacy as the top woman in the world is seriously questionable. That said, she’s a helluva fighter, and I enjoy watching her step in.

Yael, you also forgot Yuka Tsuji, who has more fights than any female fighter I know of, and an incredibly impressive record. I’m hoping for a Fujii vs. Tsuji matchup in the future.

]]> By: Yael Grauer http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-6996 Yael Grauer Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:39:54 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-6996 Uh... how about, fight at a higher weight class, or make weight? Not blowing up between fights might be a good start... Uh… how about, fight at a higher weight class, or make weight? Not blowing up between fights might be a good start…

]]> By: Yael Grauer http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-6995 Yael Grauer Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:37:12 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-6995 With all due respect to Gina, she probably has more negotiating power than just about any female fighter in women's MMA. Nobody forced her to sign contracts at weights she couldn't make over and over again. And since she's missed weight on several occasions before working with XC, the weight class excuse doesn't really hold water. And many women have successfully cut weight even when fighting a lot lower than what they walk at so the gender excuse is BS whether it's coming from Gina or Cyborg. And as far as female fighters, in addition to Fujii... Tara LaRosa is 17-1, Marloes Coenen is 16-3, hell even Erin Toughill is 10-2-1. Sarah Kaufman is 10-0 with only two decisions. Yes, Gina can fight but the "face of women's MMA" bullshit was being thrown around before she had the record she does now and is mostly based on what she looks like and her connections through her father. Having said that, she has certainly proved me wrong re: her fighting ability. And I think she will likely win her next fight. But I agree with Josh that a lot of this is just...well, hype, really. With all due respect to Gina, she probably has more negotiating power than just about any female fighter in women’s MMA. Nobody forced her to sign contracts at weights she couldn’t make over and over again. And since she’s missed weight on several occasions before working with XC, the weight class excuse doesn’t really hold water. And many women have successfully cut weight even when fighting a lot lower than what they walk at so the gender excuse is BS whether it’s coming from Gina or Cyborg.

And as far as female fighters, in addition to Fujii… Tara LaRosa is 17-1, Marloes Coenen is 16-3, hell even Erin Toughill is 10-2-1. Sarah Kaufman is 10-0 with only two decisions.

Yes, Gina can fight but the “face of women’s MMA” bullshit was being thrown around before she had the record she does now and is mostly based on what she looks like and her connections through her father. Having said that, she has certainly proved me wrong re: her fighting ability. And I think she will likely win her next fight. But I agree with Josh that a lot of this is just…well, hype, really.

]]> By: Bill http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-6992 Bill Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:13:43 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-6992 Yael I don't think anyone is forcing her to sign contracts, actually it is the opposite. The truth is that Gina is one of the most marketable MMA fighters out there (I would argue with Liddell almost assuredly gone she's in the top 5 if not top 3), but at what weight class would she fight? Hey if she cannot make the weight she should fight in a higher class, but the better fighters are at the lower weight classes. And Josh I don't know if I would call her the "best" but who knows when we will find out. She has Cyborg coming up which will be tough and then for Fujii we will have to wait and see. But actually and this may get people upset, she is the best thing to happen to female MMA. Yael I don’t think anyone is forcing her to sign contracts, actually it is the opposite. The truth is that Gina is one of the most marketable MMA fighters out there (I would argue with Liddell almost assuredly gone she’s in the top 5 if not top 3), but at what weight class would she fight? Hey if she cannot make the weight she should fight in a higher class, but the better fighters are at the lower weight classes.
And Josh I don’t know if I would call her the “best” but who knows when we will find out. She has Cyborg coming up which will be tough and then for Fujii we will have to wait and see. But actually and this may get people upset, she is the best thing to happen to female MMA.

]]> By: ironman http://www.mmaopinion.com/blog/2009/06/22/retouching-history-is-the-coverage-of-gina-carano-misleading/comment-page-1/#comment-6987 ironman Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:06:23 +0000 http://mmaopinion.com/?p=3135#comment-6987 Bill, the fact that EXC created a weightclass for her was certainly not her decision (Yael, that's what he's talking about), but my point is that its not as though this women came out of the middle-tier of women's MMA the way that Fedor came out of Rings, decimating a dozen opponents and moving into the fore-front of MMA. She deserves respect, for sure, but I won't call her the best female fighter in the world. Megumi Fujii is 17-0 with only three of those bouts going to decision. Gina has a 7-0 record, but also has three decisions. Fujii destroys people in a way that Gina simply doesn't. Anyway, glad you liked it, Bill. Bill, the fact that EXC created a weightclass for her was certainly not her decision (Yael, that’s what he’s talking about), but my point is that its not as though this women came out of the middle-tier of women’s MMA the way that Fedor came out of Rings, decimating a dozen opponents and moving into the fore-front of MMA.

She deserves respect, for sure, but I won’t call her the best female fighter in the world. Megumi Fujii is 17-0 with only three of those bouts going to decision. Gina has a 7-0 record, but also has three decisions. Fujii destroys people in a way that Gina simply doesn’t.

Anyway, glad you liked it, Bill.

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