Is The Dragon worth the hype?
By Curtis Clontz on May 30, 2009
Take a look around any MMA forum. They are no longer bombarded by Brock Lesnar is the best ever talk, it is now Loyoto Machida can beat everyone in the world, and is suddenly a P4P contendor. All of this “hype” made me question the worth. Yes, Machida is undefeated, but has he really done enough to solidify himself as the true MMA superstar that he has become?
Some of the latest comedy (comments) that I have read are these:
“I think he could beat Fedor.”
“I think Brock Lesnar would get killed!”
and my favorite “Machida is the best P4P in the world, his footwork is incredible, he is the next Gracie type thing in MMA”
Really? People really think he is quick enough to evade Fedor for 3 or 5 rounds? Others think that Machida could really avoid Lesnar’s strong take downs? The next Gracie? I must add that these weren’t simply forum trolls or Machida nuthuggers. They were guys that truthfully know MMA and have strong opinions that aren’t typically this skewed.
Lyoto Machida is the champion of the toughest division in the sport. He is on top of the mountain with the likes of Rampage Jackson, Forrest Griffin, and Rashad Evans. He is a great fighter, but lets not get crazy. I promise that if you think he is the best ever you will end up with pie on your face. Eventually someone will figure him out. There is an answer to the Machida puzzle. He is human, and will get beat.
Lyoto is on fire, but be careful jumping on his bandwagon. The UFC can’t even market him on The Ultimate Fighter, how long do you really see him being on top? Luckily, he has started to become a bit more aggresive and two straight stoppages have people talking. As for now it looks like the UFC is going to set him up with a freebie against the fighter formally known as Shogun Rua while we wait for Rampage and Rashad to finish out their fabricated rivalry. Take this as a warning, it is only a matter of time before someone figures out the riddle and Machida starts losing fights.
So in closing, the answer to my question is yes, Machida deserves all of the hype and superstardom that he is recieving. He is the champ, and has people filling up Karate Dojos all over the world. He is great, just not the greatest ever!
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I disagree…While I wouldn’t say its a definite yes that Machida would beat Fedor or Brock, it isn’t a definite no.
If he fought Fedor in the octagon, instead of a ring, he’d have a much better chance of evasion. He would have trouble in the clinch, but Fedor would have trouble in striking range. Fedor has been susceptible to strikes as Arlovski recently perfectly showcased, and unlike Arlovski, Machida has shown the patience needed to pick apart someone like Fedor and finally strike at the right time.
If he fought Brock, he would probably be taken down. Who’s to say he would be kept down for one, and two, Machida is a black belt in BJJ. Frank Mir proved, and will prove once again that Brock is a monster, but a monster that has trouble with BJJ black belts.
Machida isn’t definitely the greatest ever, but there has been nobody that stood across from him that could say they are better than him. Time will tell, and Machida MIGHT be the greatest ever.
He did better in his last fight, but previously his evasive style really annoyed me…
Look at his stats:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/24/885423/lyoto-machida-career-report
He has dominated every aspect of every opponent, and has not lost a round yet. He has not fought slouches either. He may not be THE greatest fighter but he definitely already deserves to be in the top 5. A few more wins with such dominance and there won’t be any question, even if he loses within the next few fights, he still is a complete package. Excellent striking, great wrestly, capable Jujitsu, amd PERFECT timing and patience.
Rua, what’s amazing is not simply that he gets hit 26% of the time, but that in fourteen fights (the bloodyelbow stats don’t count his bout with New Japan Pro Wrestling), his opponents have only thrown 412 punches. They’re not getting any shots off.
Also, 8-of-41 takedowns is incredible when you look at the guys he’s fought. Two solid judoka (three if you recognize Penn’s judo background) and two top wrestlers. No one gets in on him. That’s a part of his gameplan.
Oh, and that number of guard passes is freakish. I’m not surprised that there have only been three passes, given that he’s only been taken down eight times, but the fact that twenty takedowns and forty-eight guardpasses is interesting. I guess he doesn’t get very far with those passes.
Dont really see the point of this post to be honest. You seem to say he is excellent, but are making the obvious point that at some time he will get beat. Well… duhhh…
of course he will probably lose at some point, but the reason why a lot of people are praising Machida is that he is bringing something new to the sport. He is evolving the sport in a new direction. Excellent fighters just can’t handle Machida and 15 of them have fallen by the wayside as he has glided through his fights without ever being in serious trouble in or out of the UFC.
Machida brings something (relatively) new and interesting and people are intrigued as to how his opponents will cope – or fail to cope as all 15 of his opponents have done thus far. The last two knockouts will please the casual blood-frenzied-violence-junkie sure, but he has been fighting in a similar manner for several years – he is just slightly more aggressive now when he gets the chance to attack. What is more interesting is that he is continuing to fight in an unusual and intriguing manner, and world class opponents simply cannot handle it.
Amd that is not to mention that he seems like a really nice guy, and a true martial artist to boot. People are intrigued and he is exceptionally marketable as a ‘karate kid’ type honourable Ryu-esque video game hero. If Machida cannot be marketted, no-one can.
Basing comment pieces off the back of the sort of frenzied nonsense that tends to mark forums such as Sherdog is probably not such a good idea. I’ve been an admirer of Machida for a while and its pleasing that he is achieving his potential. I can’t think of a single 205′er who stands more than a puncher’s chance with him at the moment. That’s not to say there are no good 205′ers around, but rather I’m saying that he is so good and, most importantly, UNIQUE that the default mma fighting style doesn’t look like it can cope with Machida’s attack and defence.
Cokane,
It is a opinionated post on the fact that I feel that Machida is not the best P4P in the world, and the talk is simply premature at best.
“If Machida cannot be marketed, no-one can.” Really, that is why Lyoto and Rampage are coaches on TUF right? They begged Rampage to fight for the title, now that Machida is champ they can’t even have him coach. If he was P4P best, they would find a way…
This is not a hate post against Machida, it is really not… but you would really pick Machida over Brock and Fedor? by the way, his BJJ Black Belt shined through as he almost got triangled by Tito.
Machida is a great fighter but you would really say he is better P4P than Fedor, Penn, and A.Silva? (not in that order obviously)
Ryan,
Machida has 2 submissions in 15 fights…That is far different than Mir’s 7 in 12 wins. Their ground game is incomparable other than belt color.
I will say this…Machida MIGHT be the best ever in the future if he continues to defeat the guy who is in front of him. Just like Lebron James MIGHT be as good as MJ when its all said and done, and Tom Brady or Peyton Manning MIGHT be the best when they hang it up. We don’t know. Lebron may never win an NBA title, Brady may never fully heal from his injury, and Machida could get out of his game as he tries to be aggressive, loses the title, and never gets it back….
I wanna hear more! Great comments guys!
Most knowledgeable MMA fans would rank Fedor along with all the UFC champs as P4P best. What is interesting about Machida is that him being a natural 220 or so allows him to actually have super fights with someone like Fedor in the future. I would put money on seeing a Fedor v. Machida superfight in the next 2 years if Fedor beats Mir or Lesnar when he is done with Barnett and comes to the UFC.
I would loved to see Fedor in the UFC. American (new school) MMA fans need to see him. Dana White would suddenly change his tune and say how great Fedor really is…lol I am not a Fedor nuthugger, he just hasn’t lost in almost 10 years… but I guess that means he is due…Josh Barnett is going to give him all he wants!
We cannot know the reasoning behind passing over Lyoto as TUF coach at the present time. I would not be surprised if he simply declined to do it. After all, he seems very serious about this lifestyle and very serious about being champion. As he said himself – he has trained for this for his entire life.
One could also suggest that language was an issue, not to mention Lyoto is not a trash talker, and there is little likelihood that he would engage in the type of smack talking that gives TUF rivalries that little extra edge. Plus, after other belts being tied up as a consequence of the show, there is reason from the UFC perspective to prevent the champion being involved aswell.
I have no doubt that he will be a coach at some point, but at this point its probably not right for him due to a combination of the points listed above plus other stuff that we are all likely unaware of.
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As to the P4P thing, I dont agree that he is up there with the likes of Fedor yet, but I understand why some people are saying it. He simply looks indestructible. He is not of course, no man is, but he hasn’t been in trouble against some of the best fighters in the world, apart from one occasion when he was clearly tired against a fighter who looked finished (he just took a vicious knee to the mid-section and looked out of it). Anyone can get caught in a tight situation when fatigued and that is a more likely explanatory factor than that he just aint good on the ground. (If you are really interested in his grappling, do a few youtube searches for his participation in grappling competitions. There are quite a few clips, and you will see why his ground game is rated very very highly.)
It’s obvious I have bias, and there is no question that everyone can be beat, although I still like to think Machida could end up retiring 30-0 and has shown no significant chinks in his armor thus far, I am prepared for him to take a loss some day and if you listen to him talk so is he. I just don’t think it is anytime soon, from what I have seen of Shogun Rua it is not as much talent as aggression and fearlessness that have worked for him. A lot seem to think this is a good matchup for Machida, but I think he will play right into Machida’s traps. Rampage has power and can wrestle but is slow and seems to be getting slower from the clips I have seen, so I think Machida will pick him a part before he can make anything happen. I am too new to the UFC to know if there is anyone else in LHW that would make a good matchup, but so far Machida has gotten better every single fight and from the way he talks he is continually working on his abilities so that leads me to believe he may keep a slight edge on those trying to figure him out. Sure anyone can get caught with a hard punch and lose a match, but I don’t think he will lose matches due to any technical flaws or gaps in his overall fight game.
There is one aspect or stat that maybe has not came out yet also, and that is new fans to the UFC. I train Karate also, that’s the first reason I started following Machida. He does bring something unique to the MMA scene; I have only had a mild interest in it because of all the flak my MMA friends gave me over training Karate rather than MMA. They don’t realize that Karate is MMA before MMA ever existed but without the rules. Our Kata have more throws and locks/breaks hidden in them then anyone would ever expect. The striking arts, grappling arts, and even weapon arts used to be ONE system. It was only broken out into the subsets to make it easier to teach, and then after a while they just became their own. If you can find a true master to learn from he will be able to show you all of the grappling in the Karate kata’s, although a lot of instructors these days don’t really understand the kata enough to do so. Another thing people don’t realize is that elbows/knees are in Karate and always have been, it might be a trademark of Muay Thai but it has always been in Karate, we have a complete self defense set dedicated to just elbows they are so important, and most of other sets have a knee or two in them as well. It’s the same with kicks as Karate is also based around several kicks, everyone thinks reverse punch when it comes to Karate, and yes this is the bread and butter but there are also devastating kicks that can be used as well. There is also a lot more information beyond the simple strikes about how to move to stay in an advantageous position at all times, and how to strike and move at the same time which is probably 80-90% of any fight, and is also what takes the longest to fully master. You have heard Machida talk of the Kyo which is the point where your attacker has no defense, he has this down and takes advantage of this regularly. He is also excellent with taking the Kuzushi (balance), watch how he bumps opponents to make them go out of balance, and then how he capitalizes on it. You can’t fight when you are out of balance, or if you do you won’t have any power not to mention the psychological impact it has on your confidence. Point is these are things that are mastered over years, perhaps decades, that’s why there are not more Karateka that stick with it. It’s not someone whispering the technique in your ear; it’s the millions of repetitions in front of someone more knowledgeable then you in an effort to perfect it which make it so effective. But I digressed…
My point is Machida is a Karateka and now that Machida is fighting I am glued to the matches and events he will be in and have bought 2 PPV now in which I never would have before. And so are some of my Karate friends, people that never cared anything for the UFC are starting to get together for PPV events and are now almost as excited about it as I am. That’s really saying something, he has a grip on a totally different demographic, and I don’t know why this is not marketable. Having multiple styles in the ring I think is a good thing and is what martial artists wanted the UFC to be before it became the 1/3 WWE, 1/3 kickboxing/brawling, 1/3 Jujitsu sport it seems to have become. Martial artists have always wanted this to be more about the martial arts rather than WWE style matchups, now we have a guy that is humble that is also doing a different martial style then the rest so that works out perfectly. There was the prospect of him coaching on TUF, I have never watched a single TUF show because I hate reality TV and I hate all the smack talk that goes on with it (only seen the commercials advertising it), but I was all ready to DVR them if he was coaching just to see what type of coaching he would provide.
Also after following him and reading everything I can about him, I was stunned because he is a really nice guy when you get down to it, a true martial artist, a really humble and decent guy that I completely relate too. We need many more people like this! That’s why I have KEPT following him, and I hope the UFC fame, glory, and money does not change him. If he starts to showboat and run his mouth like a lot of UFC competitors, I will lose my respect for him as a man and will no longer track him even if he is doing Karate and winning.
What is the point in my saying all of the above? I don’t think Machida has to be the P4P best in EVERYONE’s eyes for people to realize that he has already changed the sport. We are on the cusp of a big change I think with the UFC, it is no longer going to just be BJJ/wrestling/muay thai, it is probably going to start being more diverse. Hopefully we also have champions that are true champions in all aspects and not just physical or martial abilities. Guys that are true role models and in which deserve a champions welcome such as this (fast forward to 4:28): http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/5/31/894042/go-to-4-28-to-see-a-champions
Lyoto Machida is for real, just see his record, who he has won, we will see Lyoto be the champ for a long time
Curtis, Shogun is far from a freebie.
Yes, the hype is crazy.
The hype is usually ridiculous for a fighter when they beat a credible opponent in an amazing fashion. Not too long ago, Rashad Evans, who looked kind of bad against Forrest for the 1st two rounds, was considered the best of the 205 division without ONE title defense. No one could see how he could be beat. After all he put Liddell to sleep, stopped Griffin, something Rampage could not do. This is the same Evans that nearly drew with Tito based on technicality and beat Bisping via split decision. And he was quickly ushered up the ranks of P4P. Really? Let’s not forget the hype surrounding the master planners behinds the fighters Jackson and Winklejohn.
I’m a huge Machida fan and I like his mix of disciplines anchored by Shotokan karate. He brings an old but new story to MMA. That’s great, something to talk about and blog about. But when you’re talking about Machida’s base skills let’s not forget another undefeated fighter. Demian Maia. BJJ. His UFC victories has been nothing short of pure art. He’s been soundly defeated his opponents without inflicting any damage . . . well except Ed Herman. Some people are still questioning his unknown striking abilities but look no further than his recent victories against Quarry and Sonnen to see how he adjusts. If Maia beat Marquardt in an amazing manner, expect the hype to continue to go out of control.