Oh yeah? When did he face either Gonzaga or Werdum at ADCC? I honestly can’t remember that and I can’t find any records of it at adcombat. Were they super fights?

Ferguson is a great judoka. I don’t know how that translates to success under ADCC rules.

How about Gonzaga and Werdum? How about Rhadi Ferguson?

Slow, tedious dominations by way of points? Sure. But there are definitely dominations.

Who has Monson submitted in MMA?

Fair enough. Besides Tengiz, Fujita and the great can Brandon Lee Hinkle, Monson’s list consists of nobodies as well as Nogueira’s.

My point was that Nogueira’s guard is passable and if Monson does pass it and manages to stay active, what’s Nog gonna do?

In terms of Barnett being better suited to grapple with Monson, I’ll be honest when I say that I think Barnett is a better grappler than Nog and, unlike Nogueira, Barnett has submitted some credible grapplers. If he took Nog down, I think he would win that fight. (instead of trying to stay standing like he did in their fight) Unfortunately, he doesn’t tend to think it’s in his best interest to stay in that position.

Again, though, you have to understand that the Monson vs. Barnett matchup is different because then we have to talk about Monson’s back game, which isn’t the best because of his short legs. It’s a different conversation.

“I haven’t been submitted by anybody as much as I’ve been submitted by him in practice, so it’s one of those things in my mind. I know he’s capable of catching me in a million different submissions, so that’s always playing in my mind.

I’ve probably had rougher times than better times, to be honest with you, in practice with him — more unpleasant than pleasant memories. I’ve just got to hopefully come in and kind of initiate my will in the fight, and make it not how it’s been in practice.”

from this interview

Instead of just saying he’s dominated the guys hes passed on with his ground and pound, why don’t you present some examples, because I’m seriously drawing a blank. I literally can’t think of anyone he has ever dominated with ground and pound. I know for 100% certainty he’s never dominated anyone with a good guard with ground and pound, or tapped anyone with a good guard in MMA. I can’t speak for no-gi grappling because he’s so prolific, he probably has tapped someone good at one time or another.

“Monson would, realistically, kill Nog in an ADCC match.”

Who has Monson EVER killed in an ADCC match?

“Barnett isn’t a better grappler than Monson”

The fight that just happened where Barnett got him down and easily passed his guard directly disagrees with this assessment.

Your right that he works slowly and is basically a point fighter in submission grappling comps, but he is explosive, and is one of the few guys I can actually envision finishing Nog if he hits him hard, because Nog recovers so well from strikes. (if Monson clamps down on a submission, he can finish that fight)

Monson would, realistically, kill Nog in an ADCC match. And you’re right that it would probably be on points, but I have a feeling it would be a big margin.

Monson would be able to pass Nog’s guard because he wouldn’t have the length issues he’s had with with Sylvia, at least in my mind.

I disagree that Monson’s groundnpound isn’t that good. He’s dominated the guys he has passed and, with the exception of Sylvia, that’s been almost everyone he’s gotten to the mat.

Fedor never really passes the guard. He’s generally quite content to strike from inside of it, and the only fighter he ever mounted in Pride was Schilt (which I would imagine he did because he didn’t want to deal with Schilt’s long ass legs).

Barnett isn’t a better grappler than Monson, and I disagree that he has better guard passing. He tends to work footlocks straight away instead of looking at positions. I agree that he has better wrestling, though I don’t think his top game is as technical as Monson.

What’s unfortunate about this match is that the more I think about it, the more I know Monson wouldn’t finish, and we’d be dragged to a painful decision. That’s really what pains me, is that to beat Nog it’s going to take 25 minutes.

Monson’s sub grappling style doesn’t translate to MMA because he would be constantly stood up. That’s why he gets owned all the time. Being in your opponents guard or passing to half or side control isn’t worth that much (which is all he does to win). Also fighters in MMA tend to have a lot better wrestling than the average jiu jitsu wizard he takes down and lays on.

You’re right to bring up Roger as a better competitor, considering he wins almost all of his matches by submission and rarely loses if ever, even in the Absolute which has the best grapplers, where Monson wins almost none of his by submission and got knocked out of the absolute twice, once by Saulo and once by Shaolin, who are much smaller grapplers. You’d also be right to bring up Pe de Pano, Arona, Werdum or Robert Drysdale, if you were limiting it strictly to heavyweights.

Would Monson beat Nogueira in an ADCC rules match? Probably but it would be by advantage or a point for a take down. Would Monson be able to pass Nog’s guard? Extremely doubtful, Nog’s guard is very hard to pass. Monson stuggled to pass Tim Sylvia’s guard. Would Monson be able to stay busy enough in Nog’s guard to not be stood up? Even more doubtful, his ground and pound has never been very good.

Fedor has some of the best ground and pound and guard passing in the sport and he spent the vast majority of both their complete encounters behind Nog’s guard scoring points occasionally. Monson has never shown good ground and pound or guard passing and you think he’s going to get on top of Nog and punish him? Barnett has better wrestling, guard passing, and top game than Monson and he was unable to keep Nogueira down.