During the UFC 82 post-fight press conference, Dana White talked a bit about how the other organizations like HDNet Fights and the IFL don’t compare to the UFC in terms of love for the sport of MMA. The quotes from White on Five Ounces of Pain look something like this:
“The IFL was gonna take us out last year and they’re offering stock options and other stuff to all of the fighters,” White continued. “Some guys we had long-term relationships with left and went there. A year later it’s gone.
… Now the big scary guy was Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban is coming in. Mark Cuban doesn’t give a [expletive deleted] about mixed martial arts. Mark Cuban has dumped millions of dollars into HDNet and he wants subscribers. He’s a businessman. He’ll build up the subscribers and sell it to Comcast and get out. I think he’s passionate about basketball (but) I don’t think he’s interested in mixed martial arts and he’ll be onto the next business venture.
Now CBS is getting involved. CBS bought ProElite, which was going out of business and about to fail. And they bought them and now they’re going to give them a shot.”
While Dana White has every right to express his opinion, as Sam Caplan also mentioned in the article, “but does White have a plan to keep the talent pool going if these organizations fail?” asked a commenter. And it’s a great question to ask. Where will all of the fighters go to put food on the table? Will the UFC expand to hold 36 fights a year to do so? Will the WEC finally act like a minor league farm team to the UFC? Not likely. Maybe White should take a step back, look around, and realize all of the untapped talent that the UFC has yet to even consider if he cares so much about the sport and keeping alive past these eight years. Maybe it’s a good idea to work with your competitors for a little while to keep MMA going strong, Dana. After all, it’s how other similar organizations stayed alive.
John Philapavage had mentioned to me in the past that Vince McMahon knew how to do business in the pro wrestling world by keeping his competitors alive. Then he’d buy them and their fighters up to keep his organization strong. Now you can watch WWE weekly. It’s a great thing for pro wretsling, but what about MMA?
After all, if all of the organizations die out and the UFC is the only show left, do I really want to watch MMA just once a month? I don’t care that Dana White is getting rich by developing the sport, I’m worried he wants to get rich by killing it now. Perhaps those rumors that Zuffa, the parent company of the UFC, is looking to sell to McMahon could be the one thing to save the sport? It’s going to be a interesting year for MMA in 2008.
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I do still love MMA and have...
March 9th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
“But does White have a plan to keep the talent pool going if these organizations fail?”
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
IFL, ProElite, M-1, and HDNet Fights are not significant sources of talent for the UFC. I would say maybe 2 athletes per year are sourced from these organizations. The majority come from smaller local shows like Extreme Challenge, Reality Fight, and SuperBrawl that the UFC has no interest in competing with or buying out, and which *are* viable as local promotions.
Once again, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
March 10th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Eventually though, talents in small local based promotions move on because skill level dictates they can make more money for their talents, or they move on completely because the sport isn’t financially viable for the fighter. Regardless, MMA as a full time industry supporting more than a small base of fighters is a very new concept.
My point is (and I’m responding to Mr. Ark) that even if the UFC has not signed a lion’s share of talent out there from smaller companies, they employ quite a bit of fighters. Those fighters came from somewhere. Eventually, they’ll come from the upper echelon of those 2nd-tier promotions if they start to contract financially. With the abundance of talent the UFC already possesses (and I’m not making a value judgment of skills on their roster, but rather sheer numbers), they may not be able to sign all but the top few people. You gave a number of two, which I know you just through out there, but that actually illustrates the point.
ECONOMICALLY, since Dana White is looking at this as a kill or be killed predator stance, fighters have been/will get good money during this few year period (money started really hitting in late ‘05/early ‘06 in North America), when it’s over and the “oil dries up”, who is going to pick up the defaulted or run out contracts of the rest of the fighters.
Essentially, you could see in a year or two start up MMA fail, UFC contract a small bit, and alot of fighters looking for a new market and new promotions, or risk having to find a new profession.
If I make $50 from reality Fight, make a real living from UFC, then am forced to go back to Reality Fight because of lack of options, even if I really like the promoter, do I want the $50-$100 still? Even better, will the promoter have a slot for me to begin with? That’s the point.
And Vince eventually was backed into a corner to the point he did end up buying his biggest competitor out of ego. And the third biggest that he often supported folded. Vince had already run the 24-30 small territories out of business in the 1980s. Today he’s practically the only game in town, and many wrestlers don’t fit his idea of what a wrestler should be. So they work TNA for next to nothing, or Ring of Honor. The reality is Extreme Challenge, Reality Fight, and SuperBrawl are the equivocation, and that is economically not promising for the fighters.
That being said, Dana White is doing what a corporation is supposed to do. It’s his job to get the greatest market share possible, and if possible create a system where by everything runs through UFC. From early training to the “discovery period” using TUF, to sponsors through UFC sanctions (Xyience in the past, and now BUD), radio and TV appearances and so on. I don’t agree with it, but he’s not doing anything the head of T-Mobile, Coca-Cola, or ABC wouldn’t do.
March 10th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Ark. Thanks for the comment. My article wasn’t about the UFC taking fighters from the other organizations, but more or less about the problem of up and coming fighters to have a place to start. Has the UFC signed any fighters who were 0-0 and didn’t come from WWE or another organization with large drawing power?
I think you missed the entire point of the article. If Dana White knows that the UFC is the biggest (and they are right now), then he should be embracing the competitors who cant hurt him.
John, I know you (and most of the non-Telecom world) don’t know this because of your ongoing hate for T-Mobile
but we actually kept a competitor alive (SunCom) through the purchase of roaming agreements where we didn’t have coverage in the Carolina’s. We could have easily just built infrastructure in the area for the same price (or less). First we sustained them, then we bought them.
March 10th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Brandt, it’s important for you to remember when it wasn’t strange for the UFC to sign 0-0 guys who were well known or well accomplished in other sports.
They signed Penn before he had a pro fight, because he was a prodigy in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
They did the same for Couture and a handful of other wrestling sensations back in the day.
Still, I think that it’s valid to point out that they don’t do this anymore. The reason for that is that it’s not a stable investment (as has been shown by Brock Lesnar, who by the way had a fight, and so seemed much more stable than he was) and it’s much easier to let a smaller organization take a chance and see what happens.
This is the same reason that Dana didn’t sign Kimbo Slice. It’s partly because the guy has shown no real technical skill, but mostly because he knows that it’s going to be expensive and if the guy loses his first fight, that’s a loss for Zuffa.
There are plenty of international talent pools, smaller organizations that will keep the careers of unknown fighters going, and promotions will continue to crop up all over the place as long as the sport continues to show that it can make money.
I don’t think we will ever see a UFC monopoly of this sport, the same way that we have never seen a monopoly of boxing, and I think that while Dana may continue to be at the helm of the biggest organization in the sport, he should show a little more respect to the other guys around him. (though I dislike Cuban, too)
March 10th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Josh, the Lesnar acquisition was financial and had nothing to do with his skill or lack of it. It was a case of sign a guy and give him a less than a million a night, and make well over ten mil. on the same night. White was calling Dave Meltzer for contact info the night Lesnar asked WWE for his release 4 years ago this month (true story Meltzer told on radio show). It was just good business and the guy had two important backgrounds (a PPV drawing background and an NCAA wrestling one).
The only reason they didn’t do the same for Kimbo was the Public relations problem he presents for them. While it’s less of a risk for Elite XC, it still is and will become soon again a P.R. situation that may or may not be dealt with. It all depends on Kimbo’s ability to articulate his training and perspective change, as well as Gary Shaw’s publicity machine facing there first real test nationally.
Beyond that though, these are small little perception things that may not even exist in how you or I look at the business.I think it probably comes from our separate backgrounds in MMA education and where we “come from” on subjects.
This is my cautionary point, and please believe me when I say I understand and respect the thoughts you’ve put out here at MMAOpinion (even if I disagree at times, and Brandt knows what that’s like in person:)
The idea of monopoly is often viewed in black and white terms. It is or isn’t a mono (one) company business. As far a definition, that’s correct. But if you haven’t guessed already I come from two decades of pro wrestling, having gotten into MMA the second time (for good) via Dave Meltzer’s reporting in 2001. That was the year pro wrestling contracted, as I mentioned above.
I get the impression you are a “hardcore fan” at heart, or at least that ideology is close to that of your own. While I have my hardcore leanings, I’ve gone through the same problems w/ pro wrestling. I tend to lean hardcore on pro wrestling myself. I love ROH. Small companies that present “work rate” in p.w. will always be around - essentially the best technical performers, so think something like a Shooto with lots of Kid Yam and Anderson Silvas for wrestling. The problem is the WWE is, without being a TRUE monopoly, is one. I had to learn that the hard way as a fan, that great match ups for a hardcore like me didn’t always make money. It seems you know that, so I’ll take it a step further.
The brand name supersedes all, and those small companies are RARELY profitable. Unfortunately Dana is right at this moment, though that could change. The UFC is profitable, but MMA has not been. Elite XC, IFL, Bodog, Pride, and several other promotions of note have not been profitable in the last several years. Jeff Osborne’s Hook N Shoot comes to mind as one of the few profitable ventures (though mildly), and coincidentally has major pro wrestling influences.
Meltzer predicted Dana was the next Vince McMahon about 5 years ago, and boy was he right. I wish Dana did shows more respect/restraint in public, but I can say so far he’s done alot more for the MMA fan the Vince has done in the last decade.